bben

transit mania- ville

549 posts in this topic

Here is prolly the most complex RHW area of my city.

This is a zoom 3 shot here -

iir8.jpg

The traffic congestion is not too bad in the area, but there are some trouble spots here and there, Where as an upgrade/ modifications may be in the works soon for parts of this area.-

2zp3t.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My first reaction to your 2 pictures, Brian, is: whoah! what a nice spaghetti plate! I hope that all those highways, exit ramps, branches and other roadways are properly marked for directions, otherwise I pity the poor SIms that have to drive across this very complex set of interchanges,

I agree with you: there a a few trouble spots that need attention, and some modifications. You are certainly a master of roadway complexity, and you manage to generate very high usage. Let us see how you develop that city further.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for your comments Pierre !

on the complexity of this -

yes, i was just explaining to Josh yesterday how the interchange was not intentionally planned to be this large and sprawling. The way this happened was this is actually a collection of smaller interchanges that merged together in this area :P

In other news , i finally have installed the rest of the RHW content I was missing and the new organized RHW menus. Mostly what I had been missing concerning RHW content was the level 3 + level 4 height content. keep in mind we are still waiting for ramp content and flex -fly development for these levels. So you can only use these height levels currently for , overpasses, through-fares , and Bypasses. These are possibilities in some of my set ups.

In addition Josh found a little trick to access the RHW levels 4 as there are no dedicated transitions for it still.. But what you do is place 2 Flex .(2-level height transitions ), back to back such that end of the raised portion of the first transition overlaps the flat portion of the second transition by 1 tile. You than place starter pieces on each end to stabilize and -

1h3r.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Continued Evolution of a Super- - Highway

The highway has now grown to 15 lanes at its widest point ( assuming you count the Southernmost 3- MIS networks which act more in the form of bypasses than involved with the direct traffic flows of the main highway) .

I start with a longer range Zoom # 3 screen shot -

i16c.jpg

The addition of a new C/D system ( collection / Distribution) , ( more on that later) ...

Has taken the Northern most portion of the super highway to 8 lanes ( at its widest point)..

But also it has balanced out traffic congestion there nicely, where as previously the entire North side of the highway was a solid red in traffic congestion -

sb81.jpg

Sources of the Derivation of the Super Highway ( 2 Pics )

North side

6pbp.jpg

South Side

6t82.jpg

2 things also to be noted as far as the appearance + eye candy elements go-

1) source area which derives from stack interchange was never properly leveled.

2) no slope mod in use.

Thanks, Brian

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting as always, Brian!

There is something that I don't understand well - a picture at a smaller zoom level would probably help. What happens to your multi-lane highway on the eastern side of the area shown (= at the top of your pics since North is to the left)? Does it terminate, or at least get much reduced, because a good part of the traffic enters from / exits to other roads there?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pierre,

Thanks much for your comments and question.

I moved the scene further to the East in an attempt to satisfy your request to try and show

you the main sources of the eastern End of the RHW superhighway.

Although some of it is derived from Mis mergers, the main source is the triple overpass set up of the Stack interchanges. All overpasses are at a level 1 heights.

I have labeled the overpasses (1-3), for easier viewing.

jnmni.jpg

Thanks, Brian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First Josh, Capton, + Pierre

Thanks very much for your comments !

In this new update of the RHW super Highway, I will detail 2 different areas-

1) Western end Source + derivation of Super Highway

2) Construction of new South C/D ( Collector/ Distributor) System

The western source of the highway has a much simpler, less complex , and less traffic congestion

beginnings than the Eastern source had-

ji98.jpg

The transitions from (RHW-4 to OWR ) are referred to at NAM as " Hard coded transitions"

This just means its one of the direct transitions of networks whereas no puzzle - piece is needed for these transitions.

sjmm.jpg

Also to be noted in the congestion view is the new stage 15 CAM residential which is currently under construction. This building has the potential for a move- in of up to 10 K Sims. Typically , on the average this will convert to about 3500 commuters,( Generally in Sc 4 workers usually comprise about 35 - 40 % of the occupancy of residentials) Since there is no mass transit available in the area it seems the most likely route would be our superhighway. Adding a fair increase in traffic to this western end of the highway. in the near future.

2) Construction of new South C/D ( Collector/ Distributor) System

So on the South side I felt I comfortably had room there to get in a RHW-4 C/D lane-

oed8o.jpg

I was quit pleased how the new developments on the South side seem to balance out traffic nicely there now, where previously much of this was in the Red with congestion -

gvow.jpg

The next pic takes us further West , so we can view the source of the South C/D lane-

l8cs.jpg

An S- curve tightens things up a bit as the RHW-4 C/D lane winds its way under the double MIS underpass..

One more look at congestion in this area of the super highway shows things look quite good with the only exception being a short stretch of the RHW-4 C/D on the northern side on the Northern side, which I can widen if needed there.

t7z7w.jpg

thanks for your comments, ! ,

brian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brian, thanks for your explanations and your pics.

SInce we've been together in this game for a while, you know about my tendency to nitpick. So let me pick some nits.

In your post of 05-27 you say that the main source of traffic for your superhighway is the triple overpass set up, that you show in your pic, you numbered these overpasses 1, 2 and 3. But: an overpass by itself cannot be a contributor to the traffic of the highway over which it passes. I suppose that off picture, on both sides, you have ramps for entering and exiting that north-south highway at level 1, and allowing traffic exchange between that highway and your superhighway.

The pics of your post of 05-28 clarify things quite well, especially for the western part, where the highway starts. Your traffic balances nicely, as you noted, and I see a couple of interesting funneling situations where the number of lanes gets reduced and generates congestion. Those are nice challenges to resolve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First off I would like to thank both Link + Pierre for your comments :cool:

Stack Interchange Full Upgrade :

Because of the heavy traffic which was flowing through the eastern end of the superhighway, I decided to do a major upgrade of the 3- Level 1 - overpasses of what i refer to as the

"Stack Interchange"

1) the 2 outside overpasses which were MIS's were both upgraded to RHW 8S overpasses..

2) the Middle overpass which was previous a 2 directional RHW-2 was upgraded now too a RHW- 6S

ccg6p.jpg

As you can see the effect of the major construction overhaul on the " 2 residential isle buildings" was to have them abandon temporarily ( upper right hand corner of pic)... More on that later !

A lot of the "MIS sprawl" was cleaned up on the Southern side of the highway by the upgrade to the South RHW-8S overpass, creating a more efficient traffic flow there now. -

i8u5m.jpg

Here is the upgrade look from zoom # 3-

nhjw0.jpg

Now a look at how all of this has effected traffic congestion , after running the city a further 5 years-

iaeh.jpg

And finally we re=visit our small residential isle. Except now after adding a lof of trees in the area we have 1 CAM stage 15 residentials that have re - grown here. With a total sim population between the 2 buildings of about 20 K.

As the pic shows both buildings use the "back door route" for there morning commutes of the RHW- 8S ( L 1), adding a great deal of traffic to that network on that commute-

jpl9.jpg

Thanks, Brian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The layout of the various roadways looks more streamlined. I am surprised that you still get very heavy traffic (red) on some stretches, but in a city that has reached level 15 this is probably to be expected. The use of the "back door routes" for the buildings that are wedged between roadways is a bit odd. And I like your trees: what mod is that one?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Capton and Pierre , thanks for your comments !

i would like to respond to Pierres' comments now-

Yes I agree the area looks more stream lined. This refers especially to the start of the super-highway at its widest portion where it connects up to the stack interchange. This was certainly one of the "bigger" improvements of this upgrade.

Also I think I am satisfied for now with the changes I have made in this area. I think the next step here is to now gradually add some bus + subways to assist with the traffic congestion in a few places.

Finally sorry, i don't know specifically which tree mod those newly plopped trees come from near the "residential isle" because I have installed so many "tree mods" now :D

But glad you like those !

There will be another update soon on the addition of the mass transit to this area.

Thanks, Brian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Subways Update :

On this update,-

I have felt for now ive done all I have wanted to in the super highway areas concering upgrade projects to RHW.

As the traffic congestion was still a bit more than I wanted, I decided to build by my subway system a bit in an effort to relive congestion on some sections of the highways. I was very happy with the results with adding only 2 subway lines in key areas of the city.

This Zoom # 2 pic shows the under ground view of the 2 new subway lines. The main subway lines runs parallel to the RHW superhighway and it carries over 28 K Sims on the evening commute. Much of the traffic congestion help sees to derive from the evening commute only, which is quite interesting in terms of how the overall traffic routing is working in this area of the city.

vwpn.jpg

Now lets see the effect this has had on the highway congestion in the area-

xfye.jpg

1)- shows quite a drop in congestion on this main part of the superhighway.

2) shows equally impressive drops down to the yellow color in which was previously a solid RED before the new subway lines were put in.

Thanks, Brian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man :) every one of your updates seems so sophisticated. Wish I could build the stuff you do. Keep it up!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting, Brian! A question arises: if you have lots of Sims in the new subway in the evening commute (i.e. returning home), how do they travel to their workplaces in the morning? If they use the subway in the evening, they should also use some form of public transit in the morning: buses? other subway lines bringing them close to their workplaces? (I have seen this in some cities, including those which I used in NAM-related tests: if there is a good variety of paths, sometimes the paths selected by the simulator for the morning commute are quite different from the paths used in the evening; you have surely observed that in your cities too).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In this new DD update ... ,

I hope to be able to answer some of Pierre's previous question on the different commutes of the subway and how the overall routing schemes differ by commute types in the superhighway area I have been working on. The Northern third and especially over in the North -West quadrants (which its my plan in the near future to work on some major transit upgrades and traffic planning solutions over in that area of my city), have developed some of the highest population density and associated traffic congestion.

In addition there is another small traffic issue i was working with concerning the double overpasses which are just to the west of the superhighway interchange with the stack over pass interchanges.

Here we have a couple overpasses that are supposed to be serving similar traffic goals but we have an unbalanced traffic situation. So what I refer to in my pics as overpass # 1 with the lighter congestion we have a total road traffic figure = 9600

The congestion view for this shows mostly green or light green for this overpass.

Overpass # 2 -( the congested one in the pic , in the red)= 1900

almost exactly double the road traffic of overpass # 1

The longer main subway line-

The traffic disparity there i wanted to mention-

Morning commute = 27,000

evening commute= 7,000

Also i did run the game a few more years just to see of the traffic Sim balances things out more over a longer time frame, which as Pierre knows, it often does :exclamation:

I did a pre construction pic which we can use for traffic congestion comparisons-

Here we can clearly see the traffic congestion disparity between the 2 twin overpasses showing up as green and red.

In addition our main subway line has gotten to a congestion state of orange now. So in consideration with that a second subway line should be kept in mind possibly in the future.

olga4.jpg

A simple solution here would be to try 2 cross over ramps , such that traffic can be more balanced-

1aare.jpg

After running the game a # of game years we can see that the effects of the 2 cross- overs has balanced traffic much better now between the 2 twin overpasses. Both have an acceptable level of traffic congestion now = yellow

slx6.jpg

Moving on now to a closer examination of how differences can occur within the 2 different traffic commute cycles ( morning + evening commutes) -

The shorter subway line , which despite its length still carries a load of traffic due to the fact that it hooks up many commuters from a very dense area of residential development.

However on this commute we route query only 191 commuters who use this subway line during the morning commute cycle. In addition all of those are commuters who actually seem to arrive from another residential area further away. Not commuters who leave the heavier dense residential area and go off to work to the eastern commercial zone far away.

pa4ak.jpg

This is quite a difference than to the evening commute where it looks like most commuters prefer though to use those subway lines on there return trip home from work, which is further away off the map to the east. -

qx200.jpg

a further and more detailed routing analysis of one of the larger cam stage 15 apartment buildings, which having a occupancy of about 14 , 000 Sims gives us some information-

On the morning commute from this dense building -

1oc05.jpg

As Pierre correctly assumes here,

the majority are using mass transit still but in the form of mostly bus transit

Whereas on there return trips home from the dense commercial area further off to the east,

subways are the preferred form of mass transit -

mphx.jpg

Hidden behind the larger building in the pic is a heavily used RTMT combo ( bus + subway) station, that is quite the popular mass transit station in this dense area.

thanks, Brian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Adding the 2 crossovers to balance the traffic between the 2 MIS overpasses was a good idea. I would not have thought of it and instead I would probably have widened one, or possibly both, MIS to OWR-2. Very creative, Brian!

As to the choice of subway vs bus, it looks to me like another instance of a non-evident choice of paths by the simulator. Since travel by subway is faster than by bus, one would expect more usage of the subway in the morning too. Evidently this is not the case in your large and complex city.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Capton + Pierre

Thanks both of you guys for your consistent replies and comments in my DD.

I have given you both a reputation point for this :cool:

Pierre,

I just wanted to make a few comments about your previous reply, Re: the efficiency of the traffic Sim.

For myself I was always one I think that sided with less path finding accuracy of the traffic Sim. I think this was what Jason's (Jplumbley) arguments always were with Steve (Z) about this. Steve always strove for the most accurate path finding that he could with Sim Z. Where as Jason would argue that if it got to efficient than it seems more like computers and mathematical formulas rather than how these decisions are made in real life, where sometimes the most accurate path finding is not always sought after. So for example if someone took a longer route for its aesthetics. rather than for its accuracy . Anyways it was always an interesting discussion about this by the 2 great traffic Sim developers and I always enjoyed it !

And also it is one of these discussions that really has no right answers but one which comes down to a choice of personal preferences .

But still, I will tell you what I am after in the sc4 traffic Sim,

So I think you want something that is at least accurate enough that it closely mirrors RL. And also of course you want the changes you make to matter for something in Sc4 too ;)

So you could argue I think as in your example that most sims taking bus rather than the much faster subways on the morning commute maybe does not mirror RL well. At least in your example, I could not argue with this kinda reasoning :angel:

On the other hand a pathfinding that is not too accurate also lends itself to more transit variety and different network choices for travel in the game, I guess what is quite interesting to me regarding transit in sc4 would be this kinda network type variety. So for example if every single time that Sims take subway for example over highways, I think I would find this boring. But if they take the subways MOST of the time but not always. I think this is more what I would like the traffic Sim to do :D

I hope I explained this okay ?

and further comments on this are always encouraged and appreciated ..

Otherwise as far as the current transit plans for my RHW city, i may add a few more subway lines here and there where i think i think they are needed but I have found another area of my city which is pretty badly congested concerning the highway system here-

o5f6.jpg

A lot of the orange congestion at the top is being caused by a heavily used 4 way subway system.

The 2 areas I plan on doing some upgrading with concern the 2 areas ive labeled in my pic-

1) widening the current RHW-4 which is fully in the red.

2) redesigning the ramp system where the MIS has gone in the red

I am still considering option with that..

Thanks, Brian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the subway congestion gets any worse, do you plan on attempting to re-work it or something of that sorts? Nice work :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now